Curse

fatboyslimerr · Apr 25, 2006, 08:37 AM // 08:37

My guild's GvG build has 2 spots for mesmers. At least one is an energy denial mesmer so what should I be... Another full denial, a shutdown or a spiker.
The whole point of the build is e-denial with fear me warriors and mesmers and we have an elemental for spiking. I'm just worried that energy denial may be affect but not if ur not pumping enough dmg at the enemy for them to need healing. So build could be changed to one energy denial, one shutdown/ spiker ???
I can't decide on this one. If warriors get sorted they could be used as a pressure team on a monk, while a shutdown mesmer shutsdown that same monk, leaving the other mesmer to deny energy on the other monk so first target monk can't be healed.
Any thoughts dudes ?

Valkyries · Apr 25, 2006, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Well that really all depends on personal choice.

There are many successful Mesmer types you can run and they are all efficient.

If you have 1 Surger, 2 Surgers are really nice IMO. You could go with a shutdown and use Glyph of Energy for fast recharge. You could go Migraine (although this is probably my least favorite tbh).

When I play GVG I usually run a Surger or a Glyph. I find both really useful.

Also, you could even take a different spin and run ineptitude. I know a lot of ppl may flame me and say its a "noob" build but really I don't think it is. If built properly its great against Warrior hate, and it still deals out lots of damage against casters when they don't realize its there and try to wand. They still take the damage. I haven't really ran this in HA/GVG yet (but I will just to try it out) but I have ran this multiple times in TA and it is a very good unexpected surprise. Warriors come right after you, and they die very quickly.

Again this is really personal choice, I can't really say what is best because they are all good. My advise is try a few different ones, see which you like the best and stick with it. Most of these battles is learning how you play your class.

hope that helps!! Good luck

fatboyslimerr · Apr 25, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Yeh it help thanks. My fav mesmer style is 16 Domination FTW !!! I think other types of mesmer magic are for wussies lol nah only jokin'. I just prefer domination e.g. power surge and power block are both groovy. So then if my guild run 2 energy denial mesmos 1 inspire mesmo with energy drain energy tap etc and I run domination denial weariness, surge, shame, burn, would it be too mixed up if I tried to through some spikin' in there and if so whats can anyone think of a good skill set up.
This is my idea, comment as neccesary
16 Domination
13 Fast Casting

Energy Surge
Energy Burn
Signet of Weariness
Shame
Mind Wrack
Diversion - I know this isn't e-denial but its just so damned good !!!
---- Then for spikin'----
Backfire
Wastrel's Worry (to use with backfire so if they attack they take dmg and if they don't they take dmg and also protects backfire if I cast at the right time)

or I could run interrupts
Power Spike
Power Leak

At 16 Domination all these skills are pretty damned awesome but I just can't decide which to choose because I've tried a lot of mesmer builds and they all work (tried full inspiration denial, Mind Burn spiker- tis very fun) but the main problem is my guild mesmer, I suppose a lot depends on how good he/she is.

Any ideas then on the best domination spikin' skills ??

Valkyries · Apr 25, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

Yeh it help thanks. My fav mesmer style is 16 Domination FTW !!! I think other types of mesmer magic are for wussies lol nah only jokin'. I just prefer domination e.g. power surge and power block are both groovy. So then if my guild run 2 energy denial mesmos 1 inspire mesmo with energy drain energy tap etc and I run domination denial weariness, surge, shame, burn, would it be too mixed up if I tried to through some spikin' in there and if so whats can anyone think of a good skill set up.
This is my idea, comment as neccesary
16 Domination
13 Fast Casting

Energy Surge
Energy Burn
Signet of Weariness
Shame
Mind Wrack
Diversion - I know this isn't e-denial but its just so damned good !!!
---- Then for spikin'----
Backfire
Wastrel's Worry (to use with backfire so if they attack they take dmg and if they don't they take dmg and also protects backfire if I cast at the right time)

or I could run interrupts
Power Spike
Power Leak

At 16 Domination all these skills are pretty damned awesome but I just can't decide which to choose because I've tried a lot of mesmer builds and they all work (tried full inspiration denial, Mind Burn spiker- tis very fun) but the main problem is my guild mesmer, I suppose a lot depends on how good he/she is.

Any ideas then on the best domination spikin' skills ??

Not too bad actually. I personally like Drain Enchantment but you want to focus on fast casting instead of Insp. then pretty decent.

The only thing I personally would do is swap out WW for something else, but hey its a great cover hex, it will deal a lot of damage with the skills you have so if you really like it keep it. You also have Mind Wrack which you'll want to spam a bit so I just feel you may have a bit of Energy issues especially if you want to spam these skills (and you will). The only Energy Mgmt skill you have is Shame, and that doesn't net you a whole lot of energy (plus long cooldown). So you will have to be very careful about not running out of energy. (this is why I take drain enchantment with points in insp. as well as Shame). Inspired Hex is another decent choice....

Don't use Power Spike, its really a waste. Power leak is nice but remember it has a very long cool down. So you HAVE to make sure you hit with it, which can be easier said than done. To be honest, you don't need it. With Surge, Burn, Signet, you'll have no issues draining their Energy.

Oh and about Diversion, take it! 100%. Don't listen to what anyone says, its one of the best skills a Mesmer has, I never leave home without it. (Also compliments your build nicely with WW - spam it and force them to cast something triggering diversion OR take the damage).

So just some random thoughts. Hopefully it all made sense.

fatboyslimerr · Apr 25, 2006, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Contridicting what I said earlier and actually using inspiration as well as domination then, points look like this I think.
14 Domination (I think, could be 13)
12 Inspiration
12 Fast Casting

If I drop power spike, power leak, backfire and go with ur idea of diversion and spamming wastrel's worry as well as using the other skills this leaves me with 2 spaces for energy gain. Drain enchant is good but if they see you using it they might keep off them it also doesn't have a spam friendly cooldown although its not bad. Might energy tap be and option ?
One option then is
Burn
Surge
Sig. of Weariness
Shame
Diversion
Wastrel's Worry
Energy Tap (or inspired hex although it reality it has 25 second recharge since it becauses removed spell for 20 seconds + 5 second recharge time; although nice energy gain)
Drain Enchantment (alternative energy gain ??? I've seen The Last Pride's mesmers spamming Spirit of Failure on multiple warriors for energy gain I guess it stacks then ?)

Thanks for the help by the way, I should have an awesome build at the end of this

. Shame I can't have 16 domination though lol.

Valkyries · Apr 25, 2006, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Well this is the thing with Esurgers. There are SO MANY builds and every single one of them are viable.

This is what I normally do (sorry goin to copy and paste from another post I made... too long to type)

Energy Surge {E}
Energy Burn
Mind Wrack
Diversion
Shame
Drain Enchantment
Signet of Weariness/Cry of Frustation (depending on the rest of my team)
Res Signet

Heres the link of some good mesmer information for this... you might find some of it useful. It'll also give you a full picture of why I chose the skills above. Again its really personal preference. All the builds similar to this can all be very viable. Its what you want to run, the beauty of mesmers

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3014805

fatboyslimerr · Apr 25, 2006, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Thanks for the help dude. This is what I've decided on as this will work regardless of the skill of my teams other mesmer.

Burn
Surge
Sig. Of Weariness
Shame
Diversion
Wastrel's Worry
Drain Enchantment
Inspired Hex (Res Signet, I'm not sure res sig will be useful because I'm likely to be the first one to die lol or if I'm using it a warrior is likely to bash me to death)

Thanks again Valkyries

Valkyries · Apr 25, 2006, 01:08 PM // 13:08

A few more things...

First, I would 100% take res sig. Really its so critical. In GVG I've seen people not take it because they have VERY good Monks. In anything else, especially TA/HA you should always have a res. If you wanted you could go Me/Mo and take a hard res. Thats acceptable too.

Also don't think you are going to be the first one dead. I admit Im not usually the last person alive but occassionally yes. You also have to keep in mind, you may die right away, and get ressed yourself... then a teammate might die next to you, you want to be able to res them right away to get them in the battle. What ppl don't get in early PVP is that 3 vs 4 or 6-7 vs 8 is bad odds for you to win. Having that one extra person in battle could be the game changer.

I'd swap the Hex for the Signet and go with that. Also you'll find what skills YOU really want to pack. Just because I pack Drain Enchantment for example doesn't mean its for everyone. For example a lot of ppl love signet of weariness. For me, its ok but I don't think its a must. I carry it sometimes but it has a fairly long recharge and it does not do any damage. I sometimes swap it with something else and I have been happy with it. So my point is, see what fits your play style. You may really like/dislike some skills compared to others. Mesmers, like every class is practice. Mesmers perhaps even more so (this isn't meant to start a flame war btw, but it takes a good bit of skill to play a Mesmer correctly).

Anyways hopefully that helps you out. Your build does look good so I wish you luck!

fatboyslimerr · Apr 25, 2006, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Thanks mate. I'll take ya idea of going Me/Mo and using resurrect because it will work with fast casting for a quick res.

I was unsure about signet of weariness also due to recharge time. I've used drain enchantment in a few of my builds before so I know its good. One really fun build but not very practical one is the full anti enchant anti hex. So skills like shatter hex shatter enchantment drain enchantment inspired hex inspired enchantment and ignorance to take out their signets as well as signet of humility to disable their elite. Think I used renewal elite. that was fun but lacking in flexiblity.

Back to this current build then. Skills now look like this
Energy Burn
Energy Surge
Shame
Diversion
Wastrel's Worry
Drain Enchantment
Spirit of Failure
Resurrection

The reason for spirit of failure is I've seen it used and spammed for warrior annoyance as well as fairly nice energy gain. With a quite friendly recharge its possible to cast this on 2 warriors fairly easily and if ur with an elemental with blinding flash, we could be looking at serious energy gain (+4 energy for you if they miss and of course they're gonna miss every time if they're blind).
This could then leave the build open for more damage perhaps shatter enchantment ?? (with 16 domination when hit by this its like getting shot lol)

fatboyslimerr · Apr 25, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Valkyries I've just had an idea. What do u think to Glyph of Renewal Diversion spamming. I know its not e-denial but renewal can u used for any of the skills above and it would be sacrificing surge but diversion almost becomes spamable. Tis a pleasant thought when the monk looks at his skill bar and half (or more) of his skills are recharing sloth stylee

Valkyries · Apr 25, 2006, 03:31 PM // 15:31

This is the glyph Dom Mesmer I was referring to earlier

Personally I love it!! But you would have to change a couple skills. Without Surge you wouldn't need Mind Wrack. I would take that out... Burn is still an option though because its good dmg and good drain at the same time. Diversion is wonderful, Shame is great. With this type of build though you want to run things like Cry of Frustration and Power Drain to get lots of energy back. Thats my suggestion!!

Its a great build if you choose it but again pretty different and it is harder to play... so make sure you like challanges

Akhilleus · Apr 25, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

i personally prefer shutdown; since the whole premise of e-denial to begin with is to give them no energy in which to use skills, and to damage them in the process. the problem is that there are a few ways around getting totally junked by massive e-denial.

fatboyslimerr · Apr 25, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Lol challenges are fun. This build I'm working on now is progression from my first mesmer build which looked like this.
Power Spike
Power Leak
Power Drain
Power Block

You get the idea. I can interrupt no problem, orison is easy, more lately bin working on guardian and reversal. These are both insanely difficult to interrupt but if u can predict when they are gonna cast them u can get it. This is a high risk strategy because if u miss u gotta wait for recharges. This build worked well but I just don't think its good enough. I worked on the logic that there's no use for an interrupter if they don't have energy to cast spells with in the first place.

I'm gonna try that the build so far first because it looks good. Might try glyph mesmo some other time. If you personally were working with another energy denial mesmer in a GvG would you use that e-denial diversion build ???

fatboyslimerr · Apr 25, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Was just doin' some GvGs with this e-surge build. First thing to note was most of the time monks don't use enchantments enough for drain enchantment to be a steady supply of energy. It might just be me but I don't much like wastrel's worry and I reckon I can happily do without it. What I changed to is this

Energy Surge {E}
Energy Burn
Shame
Diversion
Signet of Weariness
Shatter Enchantment
Energy Tap
Resurrect

Energy tap will provide a nice 8 energy every 25 seconds as well as take 6 off them. Shatter Enchantment will do a nice 96 damage and the long recharge isn't a problem due to how rarely a monk uses an enchantment after ur initial drain, but I'll wait til they forget then baaam lol.
This works a treat for me

Valkyries · Apr 26, 2006, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

Was just doin' some GvGs with this e-surge build. First thing to note was most of the time monks don't use enchantments enough for drain enchantment to be a steady supply of energy. It might just be me but I don't much like wastrel's worry and I reckon I can happily do without it. What I changed to is this

Energy Surge {E}
Energy Burn
Shame
Diversion
Signet of Weariness
Shatter Enchantment
Energy Tap
Resurrect

Energy tap will provide a nice 8 energy every 25 seconds as well as take 6 off them. Shatter Enchantment will do a nice 96 damage and the long recharge isn't a problem due to how rarely a monk uses an enchantment after ur initial drain, but I'll wait til they forget then baaam lol.
This works a treat for me

Ok a few comments.

First that build you have posted is great. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. I prefer Drain Enchantment to Energy Tap but its really choice. If you like ET then go for it. Its a nice skill...

Second, about Drain Enchantment. This is used for Boon Monks mostly. Who ALWAYS have to keep their enchantment up. Also remember it doesn't always have to be used on the Monk. You can use this on anyone in GVG. Use it on a Warrior and strip something. Take away that Healing Breeze... there are many options for this, Monk is just the primary.

All the same if you are happy without it then leave it be. Shatter Enchantment is an awesome skill but be weary of its cost. 15 E is a lot with this build which already needs all the energy it can get. Personally I'd swap this for Mind Wrack (which I noticed you don't have in). It deals "almost" the same amount of damage and its 1/3 of the cost. Yes its situational as well but its a great cover hex and when its on ppl are very careful with their energy. That is good by itself.

Overall though nice work.

fatboyslimerr · Apr 26, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Yeh Shatter Enchant is quite costly. I just got carried away by the 94 damage lol. (Tis like 104 at 16 domination). I obviously realise drain enchant can be used on other foes and should mainly be used on boon prots but the majority of monks I take on appear not to be boon prots. That might just be coincidence. However my principle target is monks and if there aren't any left I usually get the flag or annoy elementals (suppose I could zap attune or something).

I know the main thing about being an energy denial mesmer is knowing how much energy a monk has. I usually start by thinking I have more than them at 49 energy. I say they usually have about 45 or something. One problem why I got rid of mind wrack is I lose count sometimes when getting bashed by warriors, how much energy a monk still has. For example say I hit them with surge, burn, shame, weariness and tap (I'm gonna replace this but I'll use it for now) thats 10+10+13+10+6 =49 this should easily be the monks total energy but I can never unload fast enough to zap all their energy entirely plus if I have to run away temporarily they'll regen and possibly use mantra of recall (probably gain about 20 energy or something). Coming to my point, being a fast caster I can unload the skills pretty fast but I can't keep draining once I've done a full combo due to recharge times so I could only think of using mind wrack after a full combo which usually isn't very often.

Am I missing something or is there a way, if u get distracted and u've unloaded most of ur skills, to maintain degen. Or am I doing it wrong by degennin' all at once but if I am surely it won't have the same affect ???

On another note, the last GvG I did, I seemed to get totally taken out fairly quickly. I realise my monks should be there for me but I wonder if it might be possible to change build a bit to make me live longer. Not sure how u'd do it but I could use some elemental skills for armor of mist or get some illusion magic for distortion as I use distortion on my IW and its great. I did initial incorporate spirit of failure to annoy warriors and stop them bashing me as much.

I know thats a lot to complain about but you actually know what your on about unlike me who's just stabbin' in the dark with my willcrusher. Your continued help is greatly appreciated Valkyries.

swordfisher · Apr 26, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

but I can never unload fast enough to zap all their energy entirely

From the outside, it seems like you'd want to just blitz their energy down to nothing right away, but that's not how energy denial works. Basically, assume that your entire team is working a very subtle energy denial on the monk already- the monk has to spend his energy to counter their efforts. Your job is to keep the monk at an energy level where he can barely function for as long as possible. Energy denial is not total shutdown- they'll still squeeze out an Orison now and then. But the longer you keep the Monk from taking care of business, the more your team's pressure mounts against the Monk until the defense cracks.

Valkyries · Apr 27, 2006, 09:48 AM // 09:48

swordfisher sumed it up very nicely. You don't want to completely shut them down, you want to make them inefficient. Its really impossible for you to totally shut them down. If you want to do that run a Glyph Mesmer (or power block) with Cry of Frustration, Blackout and Diversion. Thats complete shutdown. No skill usage at all. What you want to do is keep their energy around zero for as much as possible. Of course they are still going to get off a heal here or there because you can't completely drain them to the point where its always zero. You'll just never have enough energy. Also my advise, watch for things like Offering of Blood... if you see a Monk cast this (and believe me a lot of them do) hit them with a well timed Surge. You'll do max damage, they have to sac life and you'll deal a ton of damage as well....

On another note... if you want a build with more survival, you could always try to put in distortion but you will REALLY hurt your other attributes. Distortion is great but I don't think its really needed. Your Monks should be keeping you alive... but also learn how to kite a bit. You can't go toe to toe with a Warrior so run, slow him down, do whatever.... teammates should be aware of this and notice what is happening. I realize a Monk can't heal everyone but you shouldn't be dying so fast that you can't make an impact either. If you REALLY have problems you can also go Monk Secondary and take some form of healing. Ether Feast is also an option but personally Im not a big fan. IMO again its not needed but if you are still finding your ways around using a Mesmer and you are finding your Monks dont heal you fast enough this will at least give you practice, then you can replace it with someone else once you get the hang of it. I would just take out shatter Enchantment from your build because of the cost, etc. Just a few random thoughts..

fatboyslimerr · Apr 27, 2006, 12:34 PM // 12:34

The main problem was getting my guild sorted into the GvG build I came up with. For once we had 2 decent monks and I fairly quickly found the best way of energy denial. I was foolish to think its good to completely drain them in one go but you notice monks are more limited in their spell casting choice if I drain 10 energy eveynow and again. I did however realise that if u get a morale boost mid battle its possible to totally drain them as all your skills recharge. I also don't need any healing once we got some decent monks and I found another decent e-surger to partner up with.
Thanks for the tips they're been great. I've realised, after chattin' to this guest mesmer we have that the build I use is actually pretty standard and probably easily countered with a migrane mesmer ?
I use drain enchantment and energy tap now along with the rest as they are both great to use just before a diverson/surge/burn combo.
I really like the build I've got now but I wonder if it would work comboed with a migrane mesmer ?
Migrane mesmer casts migrane and conjure (protection) then has a couple of interrupts to stop them casting. Could this work with an e-surger just to be different to all those dual e-surger teams ?

fatboyslimerr · Apr 27, 2006, 01:00 PM // 13:00

I actually missed the whole point of my post lol. Someone on some other post mentioned that there are far too many e-surgers now adays who just zap energy and press buttons. There is some skill but no as much as say interrupting and other domination magic. I can manage being an e-surger but the main problem is, it works with my GvG build fine, but its not as fun as interrupting. The old build I used to run with backfire and power spike was much more fun. I wonder if theres away to make (having abandoned e-surge temporarily) a really fun to play yet incredibly useful mesmer build. It will have to include power spike lol.
I'm gonna have a go

Backfire
Power Block {E}
Power Leak
Diversion (cause its soo good)
Chaos Storm (used with a hydro spiker to slow targets down)
Power Drain
Drain Enchantment
Resurrect.

I realise a full interrupter is hard to play and its almost impossibe to interrupt the 1/4 second spells but its just soo much more fun.

Any ideas for a fun fresh and original mesmer build that requires a certain je ne sais ce qui to be able to use ?